Coffee with OKRs · 7 min read
Scrum and OKRs don't compete. They do fail for the same reason
The team's daily sync was supposed to last fifteen minutes and revolve around the iteration goal. It lasts an hour and comes down to an account of who did what yesterday and who will do what today. Nobody listens to anybody, nobody takes anything away from it, and people turn up because someone told them to. We see the same failure in quarterly objective reviews, only on a different floor of the company.
From the episode · in Polish
Two floors, one rhythm and a shared cause of failure
In the recording we take both worlds apart: what Scrum organises, what working with goals organises, where they share a rhythm of iteration, review and retrospective, and why they break down in identical ways. The part about how an implementation that starts with processes and tools, hoping the mindset will turn up somewhere at the end, is a road of suffering starts at around the thirtieth minute. from 00:30:12
The recording is being edited. Leave your address and you'll get the link when it's ready.The question of whether to choose one or the other is badly framed, and the episode deals with it in the first part. These two things work on different floors. Scrum organises the creation of value inside a team. Working with goals implements strategy at the level of the whole organisation: it takes a direction set out over two, three, sometimes five years and translates it into a year and a quarter, and the right question in a window of three or four months is what the best thing is that we can do now to get closer to a goal two years away. Agility in itself is not one of these tools, by the way. It is a mindset described by four values and twelve principles, embodied in an endless number of practices, and Scrum is only one such set. What they share is a rhythm, and not by chance: iteration, a review of what has been produced, a retrospective of how we worked together.
More interesting is what they have in common on the side of failure. An implementation that starts with processes and practices, counting on the mindset growing somewhere along the way, is a road of suffering. That line comes up in the episode about Scrum, but straight afterwards it turns out to describe our own backyard as well. Most texts claiming that Scrum doesn't work or that agility is over have exactly this common denominator. It is identical with goals: saying that OKRs don't work usually means the problem lies somewhere else entirely, and the method is a convenient scapegoat. That is why, when we come into an organisation, we often start with something other than goals. The most common form of breakdown looks the same in both worlds: the framework is stripped of its pillars and values while the rituals remain, so the calendar is full of meetings that lead to nothing. The second shared problem is how the result is counted. An outcome measured by effort, meaning how much I did and how fast, versus the question of what will change once I have done it. Both stem from being used to project work and to thinking in initiatives.
Finally, there is a condition without which neither of the two will work, and here the episode is merciless. Without a culture that respects autonomy and drawing conclusions from data, nobody will take responsibility for either a goal or an experiment. With a leader who points a finger at what to do, and with costly mistakes, there is no room for testing hypotheses, because everyone is afraid of getting it wrong. In a tightly managed organisation without autonomous teams, performance management or classic project management will work better, and there is no point forcing a round peg into a square hole. Along the way, a popular objection is defused: that cross-departmental objective teams won't have time to form because they are set up for a quarter. It only holds in one arrangement: when the board sets the goals itself and hands them out, picking different people for each, for example two objectives with eight key results and a different group every time. Then everything really is built from scratch each cycle. When the strategy and goals are worked out by the same permanent group of leaders together with the board, the context simply doesn't disappear between cycles. That leaves us one thing to improve in our own work: in retrospectives we mainly ask about what didn't go well. We all know what isn't working for us, and the worst thing is not knowing why we win.
Takeaways
Four things this episode says about both frameworks at once
- 01
Mindset first, tool last
An implementation started from processes and practices, on the assumption that the mindset will come later, is a road of suffering. The first question is what problem we are solving and what values stand behind it.
- 02
Without autonomy, neither of them will work
Where the leader points a finger and mistakes are costly, nobody will take responsibility for a goal. Other tools exist for companies like that, and it is better to reach for them than to force a round peg into a square hole.
- 03
A ritual without pillars turns into a status report
Fifteen minutes around the iteration goal swells into an hour-long account of yesterday's tasks once all that is left of the framework is the meetings. The same mechanism eats up quarterly objective reviews.
- 04
A permanent group instead of a new crew each cycle
When the board hands out ready-made goals and picks different people for them every time, the team and the context are created anew. When the goals are worked out by the same group of leaders together with the board, there is nothing to rebuild.
The whole topic in one place
Project management and OKRs: how do you combine them?
Scrum is an example in this conversation, not the subject. The same scene repeats with every method a company already has in place: someone asks whether they have to choose, and an hour later it turns out there is nothing to choose between, because the two answer different questions. Why that is and what it means for planning a quarter, we have described in the text on reconciling OKRs with project management. From there, links also lead to all the conversations in this series.
Author

Lena Zhukova
founder; strategy workshops, quarterly sessions
Founder of OKR Poland. For twenty years she has worked with boards of companies from 30 to a few thousand people; she wrote dozens of strategies with them and helped implement them in more than 40 organisations.
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